Jewish Mom Wants To Know If She's Wrong For Not Letting Her Kids Celebrate Christmas After Her MIL Raged Over It
Not everyone knows this, but Judaism is more than a religion, it's also an ethnicity. While on one hand, it would be easy to say that the Jewish people have survived against all odds over the centuries because of their ability to both maintain their traditions and cultural identity while assimilating to the local cultures they seek refuge in, it is also important to note the significance of not fully assimilating and maintaining their identities.
The Jewish people have survived through that delicate balance of assimilation and anti-assimilation, and today more than ever the conversation has morphed for Jews, especially those living in predominantly Christian cultures like the United States. The United States may not have a formal religion, but you'd be hard-pressed to convince a lot of people from other religions that the country doesn't seem to function around the lifestyles, holidays, and belief systems of Christians.
It's very likely that if you asked a handful of Jewish people a simple question you would get 3-4 times as many responses and opinions as you thought possible. That's probably why questions like the one discussed on Reddit recently ended up pulling in so much attention.
OP wanted to know if she was wrong for not bringing her Jewish children to her Jewish in-law's Christmas celebration... and nearly 3,400 comments later, the discussion was quite educational.
This Jewish mama came to r/AmITheAsshole to ponder to the masses if it was rational of her to decline taking her kids to her in-laws Christmas celebration.
Let's jump right in.
OP knew her Jewish husband's Jewish family celebrated a cultural Christmas.
Everyone involved was very much Jewish, though.
Wow, MIL went THERE?
Cultural appropriation sounds like a stretch, Christianity is an open religion and practice, but it's pretty weird for Jews to celebrate it... or is it?
A quick and relevant note:
Front and center the conversation began about whether or not Christmas is still a Christian holiday.
IS it a good question?
OP said everyone had a fun-filled, present-opening Hanukkah celebration, too.
There's a lot of different levels of Jewish identity and observance.
An important note:
u/Snoo_3303 said:
"I am all for the OP doing whatever she deems appropriate. But as an atheist, Christmas isn’t solely religious. It’s a federal holiday with an extensive cultural background that is separate from the religion."
and LunaNik added:
"Most Christmas traditions are pagan in origin, including the tree with lights, which is sympathetic magic to hasten the return of Spring. If Christians can celebrate the Winter Solstice, I see no reason why Jews can’t."
u/felixkhans responded:
"That doesn’t mean it’s not a Christian holiday… people often say Christmas isn’t religious to shut down Jewish people who feel alienated by how pervasive it is. My family is secular Christian— I’ve never felt a religious connection to Christmas. But it’s still a culturally Christian holiday, even if God doesn’t make an appearance.
(Edit: once again people replying to this trying to explain how it’s not religious are proving my point… tell me the Christmas story and then explain how it’s not religious 😂)"
Out of thousands of comments declaring OP "YTA," an entirely different picture was painted by Jewish users chiming in.
Interesting point:
This next comment was responded to after a user was emphasizing how many non-Christians celebrate Christmas. Many people who did not grow up in or are a part of a marginalized religion don't realize that just because atheists and non-Christians celebrate Christmas, that doesn't explicitly make Christmas hegemony a secular event, holiday, or occasion and quite a few Redditors had a lot to say to that sentiment.
Problematic:
OP responded to the comment about Christmas not being religious to say that she saw it as a religious holiday. This user backed her up:
Forced assimilation is something many Jews are very familiar with.
Let's get into the grit of the greater conversation at hand here:
It's literally in the name...
Your experience and perspective is reflective of your privilege.
NTA!!
Something people need to understand:
OP repeatedly had to explain to non-Jewish Redditors commenting that her Jewish in-laws have no real reason to celebrate Christmas as it is but that doesn't mean she wants her children celebrating it.
There's definitely an element of "this is nuanced" when it comes to the American Jewish experience.
There's a saying: two Jews, three opinions... wink-wink.
It's no surprise that another marginalized religion (in the US) can relate to OP's situation.
Honestly!
It's not the argument y'all think it is.
Was this the best place to ask this question? Probably not.
Thankfully, even with thousands of comments, there was a solid amount of Jewish support.
Honestly.
Let's talk about it.
It's odd.
The weird factor.
An Athiest Jew chimes in:
NTA
PERIOD
Re-writing history? Check.
People DO get comfortable.
Right?
Thanks
It's odd.
Let's go.
Honestly.
Author and "podcaster" Lux Alpatrom recently tweeted about the problem with the argument that Christmas is somehow a secular, cultural holiday completely separate from religion even if plenty of people aren't religious who celebrate it. On Twitter she said:
"I would really love it if people could understand that Christmas as capitalist celebration of presents is just another form of the syncretism that Christianity has always used to further its spread instead of treating it as a negation of Christmas’s Christian nature.
Christianity is a missionary religion with a history of co-opting local traditions in order to get more people to go along with Jesus — indeed that’s part of how Saturnalia and Yule formed the backbone of Christmas — and what is capitalism if not America’s state religion?
And like, none of this is a condemnation of you celebrating Christmas! If you want to do it, great! But it’s extremely irritating to be told that Christmas is “secular” or “for everyone” when that’s literally the oldest trick in the Christian recruitment playbook.
When I say that Christianity is a missionary religion I mean that one of the fundamental goals of Christianity is *global domination*. “But isn’t that every religion?” you may be thinking. “Doesn’t every religious tradition think the world would be better if everyone joined it?”
And the answer there is EMPHATICALLY NO, and I think that is a point of confusion for a lot of people who were raised with a Christian mindset.
Judaism has a complicated and occasionally annoying conversion process because we’re not interested in explosive growth, we’re interested in building a committed people and community. It’s like the difference between a country club* and an MLM. * Yes I get the irony here.
So, like, of course Christmas is marketed as being “for everyone,” because Christianity has marketed itself as being “for everyone” for millennia; missionaries are a global sales team for Christ, and Christmas becoming pseudosecular fits with the mission.
But you can’t “balance” or “combat” that by, say, turning Chanuka into a universal and “secular” holiday, because doing something like that cuts against the very nature of Judaism!
Jews don’t want everyone celebrating our holidays because our holidays are for *our community* — which is why Christian “seders” are so incredibly offensive. But Christians *want* everyone to be at least a little bit Christian, and secular Christmas furthers that goal.Anyway it’s this missionary shit and assumption of universal adoption of Christmas that I hate even as I have very fond memories of spending Christmas with my Catholic grandma! The personal celebration of the holiday and traditions is lovely, the forced celebration is not.
Also this conversation inevitably reveals that a lot of folks think religion == belief in a deity while I believe religion == a set of cultural practices and beliefs, which is why we keep disagreeing about whether something can be both atheist *and* Christian."
MIL's choices don't have to be OP's
Very well said.
Of course, what better way to spread holiday cheer than making this final edit necessary for OP?
It's not what you'd expect, that the holidays would become such a tumultuous time for so many families, but it seems inescapable. The holidays bring chaos, debates, and drama for families of all walks of life and now we can only hope that OP resolved the conflict with her in-laws, especially after the intense conversation thousands of people had about the whole situation.
What holiday traditions do you participate in? Let us know in the comment section now.
